He denies that Allah rose above His Throne and he is asking: where was Allah before He created the heavens and before He created the Throne?

Question

Praise be to Allah.

Firstly:

In
the answer to question no. 992, we quoted the evidence
that proves that Allah, may He be exalted, is above His creation and that
He, may He be glorified, is above the heavens.

In
the answer to question no. 146779 we explained that
the Throne of the Most Gracious, may He be exalted, was above the water
before He created the heavens and the earth and all that is in them.

Secondly:

Before the creation of the Throne, and before the creation of the heavens
and the earth, and before the creation of directions, there was Allah, may
He be exalted, and there was nothing before Him, nothing after Him, and
nothing besides Him, as al-Bukhaari (7418) narrated that ‘Imraan ibn Husayn
(may Allah be pleased with him) said: I was with the Prophet (blessings and
peace of Allah be upon him) when some people from Banu Tameem came to him
and he said: “O Banu Tameem, accept the good news.” They said: You have
given us the good news; now give us something. Then some people from Yemen
came in and he said: “Accept the good news, O people of Yemen, for Banu
Tameem did not accept it.” They said: We accept it, for we have come to you
to learn about the religion and to ask you how the matter was from the very
beginning. He said: “There was Allah and nothing existed before Him, and His
Throne was on the water. Then He created the heavens and the earth, and He
wrote all things in al-Lawh al-Mahfooz.”

Al-Haafiz (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

This indicates that there was nothing besides Him: neither water nor the
Throne nor anything else, because these are things other than Allah, may He
be exalted. End quote.

One of the supplications of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be
upon him) was that which was narrated by Muslim (2713): “Allaahumma
anta al-awwal fa laysa qablaka shay’un, wa anta al-aakhir fa laysa ba’daka
shay’un, wa anta al-zaahir fa laysa fawqaka shay’un wa anta al-baatin fa
laysa doonaka shay’un (O
Allah, You are the First so there is nothing before You, and You are the
Last so there is nothing after You. You are al-Zaahir [the greatest and
highest] so there is nothing above You, and You are al-Baatin [aware of the
subtlest secrets] so there is nothing closer than You).”

It was narrated that Abu Razeen said: O
Messenger of Allah, where was our Lord before He created His creation? He
said: “Nothing existed but Him, with nothing beneath Him and nothing above
Him. Then He created His Throne above the water.”

Narrated by at-Tirmidhi (3109), Ibn Maajah
(182) and Ahmad (15755).

This hadith was classed as saheeh by at-Tabari;
as hasan by at-Tirmidhi, adh-Dhahabi and Ibn Taymiyah; and as da‘eef by al-Albaani
in Da‘eef at-Tirmidhi.

To
sum up: Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, is unique in His divinity,
so there was no created entity with Him in past eternity. Rather He was
Allah, and there was nothing before Him. Then He created His creation and
rose above His Throne, as He has told us in His Book, in such a manner as He
willed, may He be exalted, and there is none that can dispute with Him
regarding His sovereignty and He has no partner in His authority.

Secondly:

This question that the deniers pose to those who affirm that Allah, may He
be exalted, is above His creation and rose above His Throne should, rather,
be addressed to them, if they suggest that that Allah, may He be exalted,
needs His Throne or His heavens or anything of His creation. Exalted be
Allah far above what they say. But if those who affirm the divine attributes
affirm, in addition to that, what every Muslim believes, that Allah, may He
be exalted, is completely independent of means and has no need of any of His
creation, and no one opposes Him in His sovereignty and His authority, and
that the Throne, the heavens and all creatures only exist and continue to
exist by the support of their Lord, Who is the one who created them and
created them for the purpose for which they were created, and sustained them
and provided for them, and that the Throne needs its Lord, and it is held up
by His might and power, for “Verily!
Allah grasps the heavens and the earth lest they move away from their
places, and if they were to move away from their places, there is not one
that could grasp them after Him. Truly, He is Ever Most Forbearing,
OftForgiving” [Faatir 35:41]
– if that is the case (that everything needs Allah and He has no need of
anything), there is no point to this argument.

Moreover, this question could be asked of the deniers too, and this
assumption cannot be avoided unless they affirm that which is proven by
Islamic texts and common sense, that Allah is above His creation.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

Allah was and there was nothing with Him, then He created the universe, so
it must be one of three scenarios:

Either He created it within Himself, then He separated from it. This is
impossible; Allah is far above being in contact with filth and other
things;

Or
He created it outside Himself, then He entered it. This is also impossible;
Allah is far above entering into His creation. There is no dispute among any
of the Muslims that these two scenarios are impossible.

Or
He created it outside of Himself, and did not enter into it. This is the
truth; no other scenario is possible and nothing but this is befitting to
Allah.

End quote from Majmoo‘ al-Fataawa (5/152)

As
that is the case, it may be said: what is the reservation that may result
from affirming what Allah affirmed about Himself, that He is above His
creation and He rose over His Throne, which does not lead to any similar or
worse reservation in the case of those who deny that?

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) also said:

It
is known that there is nothing in the text that mentions the word direction
or denies it, as it mentions and affirms His being high, rising above, being
above, ascending to Him, and so on. So it may be said to the one who denies
the idea of direction: Do you mean by direction something that exists and is
created? For Allah is not encompassed by His creation. Or do you mean by
direction what is beyond the universe? For undoubtedly Allah is above the
universe and distinct from His creation. Similarly, it could be said to the
one who says that Allah is in a particular direction: Do you mean thereby
that Allah is above the universe? Or do you mean that Allah is encompassed
by any of His creation? If you mean the former, that is true, but if you
mean the latter, that is false.

Allah is as the imams (leading scholars) of Ahl as-Sunnah said, above His
heavens, over His Throne, distinct from His creation. End quote from
Majmoo‘ al-Fataawa (3/41-42)

And Allah knows best.